Not sure if thats the issue but if it is then its unsolvable by default. we try to avoid systemd as much as possible and this looks like app specific change so you need to figure out how to set apps needs on the OS.
I didn’t notice that. It’s a systemd based distribution. Where you got that idea from?
I didn’t quote you, reply to you.
I replied to “we try to avoid systemd as much as possible” for which I don’t know where that is coming from.
Check "Non-systemd Init "
I don’t think we can claim that.
For example, we’re using systemd tmpfiles.d / /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/, while we could implement that some other way. (Which however would make little sense not to do as long as we are using systemd.)
Yeah thats due to current state of no better distro alternatives. on the other hand if there is any possible way to avoid systemd with the same level of usefulness/easiness then it should be done.
Otherwise we are going to be systemd dependent and hard to detach whenever later something comes up (because systemd is a piece of bloated code which has its own stupid issues, which should be avoided whenever possible).
Otherwise we are going to be systemd dependent and hard to detach whenever later something comes up (because systemd is a piece of bloated code which has its own stupid issues, which should be avoided whenever possible).
Without systemd, kicksecure can never move to using run0 instead of sudo. Secureblue has already moved to run0. See Release v4.2.0 - secureblue goes sudoless! · secureblue/secureblue · GitHub.
In a continuing effort to minimize and eventually eliminate suid-root binaries, sudo, su, and pkexec have all been removed from the images. As noted at the end of this section of the postinstall readme, polkit prompts and manual polkit invokations via run0 can be used to accomplish the same functionality without suid-root, notably even for non-wheel users (by prompting for the wheel user’s password). In addition, suid-root has been removed from numerous other binaries that don’t require it.
If you do not want to take this direction, that is okay. But it is an option to potentially consider.
For Kicksecure, it is planned to replace sudo with doas as well as to implement Role-Based Boot Modes (user versus admin) for Enhanced Security.
Comments on run0:
Although not a direct security issue on its own, systemd is a bulky piece of software and has been heavily criticized for numerous things.
For linux there are init available check here.
For seL4 good news is that Genode OS has developed its own lightweight init component.
Note: Though Genode init is not with (yet) rich features as systemd.
Way too much to discuss.
I could not find an article that goes point-by-point, line-by-line through the “Arguments against systemd” page at without-systemd.org and gives a direct reply to each claim.
Compiling a huge list may make it appear as “there must be some issue”.
shotgunning: Where a debater overwhelms their opponent with a rapid series of many arguments, often numerous and some irrelevant or weak.
Systemd has been adopted by the vast majority of major Linux distributions. It’s the most popular init system. Systemd is the most popular init system. Unavoidably, there are going to be a lot opinions, project issues and design decisions that not everybody will agree with.
I have some criticism of systemd myself. For one, they could lower confusion by not naming all sorts of projects systemd-something. And a lot other technical issues. But on balance, the good still weights out the bad by far.
Most if not all of these points has been discussed in the past. If you want to go through them: Search term suggestion for https://www.perplexity.ai or any other AI of your choice:
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Arguments_against_systemd/
rebuttal of that page line by line more or less with comments on each item
I recommend also to not only focus on negativity, criticism. To reach a more balanced, realistic viewpoint, I recommend
- not only reading what anti-systemd activists are saying. I am calling Arguments against systemd - Without Systemd activists. That becomes clear from the website logo and memes posted on the website.
- but also to read the opposite, articles why systemd is great and which security features it provides.
Basically, you’re seeing some technical details (“systemd”) and are attempting to perform a system audit. Please refer to:
Without being a developer, you will not be able to make head or tail of this. It’s way too complex. It will only be a complex informational spiderweb of person A said B but person C said D.
That comparison table is insufficient. It doesn’t mention any security hardening features.
See also:
The init system is a criteria for base distribution choice for Kicksecure.
Realistically, we’ll only get this feature if a base distribution gains that feature and we port to it.
There are no suitable, promising base distributions at time of writing with this feature and other criteria.
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Yep thats sadly true.
Things which are no longer required or highly unified, simplified thanks to systemd:
- any code related to daemonizing
- daemon restart
- signal handling
- PID files and manual process tracking, service supervision (systemd notify)
- seccomp call filtering
- logging, log rotation
- custom init scripts
- socket activation
- capabilities
- child processes cleanup
- in-exhaustive list
Not easy to remember since thanks to systemd I didn’t have to worry much about all of that for years. Reading some application’s source code and recognizing they’re still manually handling daemonizing reminded me of this.
related wiki page: